(2017)found no difference in survival rates of embryos that were thawed and biopsied, then refrozen. thanks so much! Why did I miscarry a normal embryo? Poor quality embryos are they worth PGS testing? I am not naive I know bad things can happen. A few rounds of heavy- duty antibiotics cleared it up. I was told by my doctor that when it is a PGS embryo that is miscarried, it is a 50% chance it was something else with the embryo (structural issues with the organs or placenta) and a 50% chance it was something about the moms body. I guess I'm facing wasting the investments of stimulation vs potentially wasting the investments in proceeding but also getting more information that might help with future cycles. A Group Owner is a member that has initiated the creation of a group to connect with other members to share their journey through the same pregnancy & baby stages. Additionally, my RE says sometimes they will recommend these medications even if you test negative but have recurrent pgs transfer failures with no other explanations (you might want to search autoimmune immune protocol on these boards). (The embryo split!) In this post well learn more about IVF with PGS success rates for euploid embryos. I think its valuable information because many people dont realize the chances of not getting blasts/eligible blasts for biopsy. Patient(s): Cases included 38 patients who underwent frozen euploid ET as determined by aCGH, resulting in miscarriage. Mosaics are often transferred after euploid embryos have been exhausted, although there is evidence that low level mosaic transfers are comparable to euploid transfers (see here for a review). Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. So crazy that its what finally worked. Your story does give me hope and I wish my little one is as strong as yours! Im assuming as the levels drop theyll wean me off. More studies need to be done. . Or adding an immune protocol if you didnt with this FET. Praying you did and thank you for the advice! hang in there. Euploid embryos are believed to have higher success rates and a reduced chance of miscarriage. This is exactly what I had! See the chart below from the CDC (2016 data): In this post well look at the different miscarriage rates that all these types of PGT-A tested embryos have. 1) Has anyone else had the immune suppressing protocol NOT work, and then gone on to have it work? I asked her can we do bloodwork to see what couldve caused the miscarriage (I.e immune complex, blood clotting disorder or inflammation) and she doesnt think I need to and how we should proceed with the same protocol again and I dont know how to feel about this unable to sleep. That embryo implanted but resulted in a chemical pregnancy. But it seems like the majority of twin pregnancies result in healthy babies. (2018)found a reduction in clinical pregnancy when embryos were thawed, biopsied and re-frozen (the odds were about half). (2014)found no difference inongoing pregnancybetween grades (about 50% for each category). I know I needed it after my failed FET and I really didnt have it. She said that this is something that is prevalent in recurrent pregnancy loss and failed implantations. It was an incredibly long and intense process but looking back I did not have time on my side for my eggs so it was the right decision for us. While those are great odds, sometimes the FET fails. No clinic ended up quoting more than 60-70% . Took 2 years of "fighting" but looking back all the money, pain. Alternatively you can check out my websites tag for mosaic embryos here. Even though I ended up with no good embryos I recommend it because I think it's good to know now and not later with a miscarriage. Patients often hear "PGS-normal embryos have a 60 - 70% success rate." But that is on a per-transfer basis. Ive done intralipid infusions and Neupogen each time in the case I had an autoimmune disorder or natural killer cells so I dont think that would be the issue. If you feel a message or content violates these standards and would like to request its removal please submit the following information and our moderating team will respond shortly. We spent well over 45K to get to this point. An embryo with more or fewer than 23 chromosome pairs may be at increased risk of miscarriage or certain genetic disorders. I will say that I have heard a LOT of stories of people having failures with PGS embryos followed by successes- on here and on instagram. Best of luck! My first FET with my only normal embryo was successful but ended at 7.5 weeks with a MMC The devastation was unreal. - 2 Day 5's transferred ended in a chemical pregnancy; 1 perfect Day 6 blast ended up making me a mom. The test uses an algorythm and brings together age (in my case 44), the nuchal measurement of the foetus (which was normal) and the values of PAPP-A and Beta HCG from a blood test. I have however done Intralipid Infusions and taken Neupogen beginning a week before transfer for Autoimmune protocol (although Ive never actually been tested for Autoimmune disorder). I am terrified he wont implant. Your experience gives me hope so thank you for sharing , - Estradiol patches and to apply 4 of them and change them every 2 days, - progesterone 200mg suppository morning and evening. Advancing age of the female partner increases the chance that the embryo will be abnormal. Theper retrievalstatistic helps to see the chancesbefore PGStesting. Im willing to try anything :) thanks for sharing! Im sorry for your loss My first was also a frozen transfer and I agree, there is more prep involved. Has anyone had this happen and did any further testing determine the cause? Im absolutely going to ask for biopsy and check for endometritis. The chart below, based on information published in Reproductive Biomedicine Online, in 2016, shows:. Did you do anything different with your FET? Did our first FET in October with a supposedly PGT normal embryo. 2 - IUIs both chemical Because all the women who didnt have embryos to transfer are now included and lower the overall success for that age group. Note that once you confirm, this action cannot be undone. They also reported the number ofblastsbiopsied. As for boosting chances with two put back it should not be the trick. Feeling more confused than ever. PGT-A can also identify the gender of an embryo. Looking for anyone who has had recurrent chemical pregnancies and then found success. Can any further conclusion be made based on number of normal pgs results ? We are so happy about that, we just want this one to be the one. The other two are on ice. Aneuploids on the other hand, at least based on 1 study, seem to have a 100% miscarriage rate. Please select a reason for escalating this post to the WTE moderators: Connect with our community members by starting a discussion. However, theirsample sizewas small. I did switch clinics in the middle and felt that my new clinic cared more about me and was more aggressive in testing for other things and adding new medications to my cycles. My previous cycle where I started the prep medications (minivelle and ganirelix) was shorter (23 days) than my typical cycle (25-28) days. Trying naturally, assisted, etc. So in your case it might be different since yours are chemical pregnancies but still worth asking I think :) Also someone above mentioned the endometrial biopsy which would also probably be a good idea. Odds of success are roughly 70 percent. Fast Facts About PGS Testing Risks. I dont see myself spending a fortune on acupuncture again. Might be worth asking about. Or is that the reason they don't continue to progress? The embryo biopsy can be utilized to perform preimplantation genetic screening or PGS. As someone else mentioned adding prednisone, I also had a steroid but mine was the Medrol Dose pack which is basically the same idea. My result came with a high risk, 1 in 11 chances of the baby having Down Syndrome. A recent 2019 study looked at 130,000 biopsies by NGS tested (this is the current testing method): Demko et al. I want to be exhaustive in testing to get to the bottom of the issue, but I certainly don't want to waste time/money on tests we don't need. The thing we did differently for this one was adding an antihistamine protocol. He was surprised my doctor was doing a Receptiva test naturally, without medication, since the idea is to simulate the same environment of a transfer, and was also surprised that my doctor had done a 5-day-post-retrieval-transfer in the first place. END MENTS. My second Beta I dropped to 59. I just don't know what to do. Im still u sure if this will go to term, but getting a 2nd opinion from a specialist in RPL sure has made a difference. Very frustrating to have an inconclusive. MENTS THROUGHOUT MENTS You may want to ask/consider this before moving on for more data before trying with another precious embryo. A Group Owner is a member that has initiated the creation of a group to connect with other members to share their journey through the same pregnancy & baby stages. Trade-offs of PGT-A (or PGS) Im assuming you had no issues shipping yours? Your experience is so inspiring, thank you for sharing . I pay completely out of pocket for everything so the added expense was not something I wasnt looking forward to, but Im happy I went through with it. - continued the same above protocol with the only change was that once I got my first positive beta (63) they had me increase the progesterone suppository to three times a day. I've experienced 3 chemical pregnancies - one naturally (7/2017), one via our 2nd IUI (9/2018), and the third this January after our FET with a PGS tested embryo. I am hoping number 5 is it. And I can't say thats the sole reason this one stuck, but it is the one thing we did differently, and here I am. Thank you! Do you think it's worth it as last time I had a medicated cycle and it was a . That said, Im still glad that I pursued additional testing and second opinions just in case. He also answers questions in his private Facebook group. If your protocol did not have one or the other perhaps you can ask your RE about it. During my first IVF cycle, when we only created 2 normal embryos out of 18 eggs (my husband's sperm is great), it seemed like embryo quality would have explained the first two chemical pregnancies. Gearing up for FET I am thinking of you and truly wish you the best in January , Im sorry for a late response Ive been off the app to work on my mental health. I know how hard this all is. Group Leaders communicate with staff moderators and escalate potential violations for review, but they dont moderate discussions. I did not do an ERA although I know a lot of people who have and have gathered helpful info from it. Im so sorry for your losses. Good luck and dont give up on hope yet! I'm so sorry for your loss. I could tell that my dr thought we could just try again but she knew I needed to check something to feel ok with it. Turns out I was 24 hours prereceptive and Im convinced the ERA and extra day of progesterone is what did it. Thanks! It definitely won't hurt to ask your doctors about an antihistamine protocol, I don't remember the exact dosages I took or how long. Took THREE rounds of antibiotics for mine to clear. 2nd was an FET that was a chemical, likely due to an embryo issue, even though it was graded highest. Im sorry that didnt work. MENTS I am also going through a chemical pregnancy this week, but with an untested embryo (so, that's very likely the reason for my loss). 12 43 comments Best Add a Comment gundacurry 2 yr. ago https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282 (17)31371-7/fulltext lennylincs 2 yr. ago Ill come back and edit this post with the link. It's an autoimmune blood clotting disorder that can cause recurrent miscarriage. Best of luck on your next FET! However, this study did not focus on the >35 age group, which is likely to be the most benefited by this technique. Weve discussed euploid embryos, mosaic embryos, so what about aneuploid embryos? This is all so hard and stressful. We have not done a hysteroscopy but will ask my dr if we can do one to check and at least rule that out. Find advice, support and good company (and some stuff just for fun). We have one (and only one) 4bb PGS normal embryo. Check here for the full. I go for my next Beta tomorrow. Hi! think twice before sharing personal details, foster a friendly and supportive environment, remove fake accounts, spam and misinformation, delete posts that violate our community guidelines, reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts. We had 4 blasts tested in our first IVF cycle and 2 were abnormal / 1 mosaic / and then 1 "normal". Hopefully an ERA can shed some light on it! Once I started hearing other people's stories I was shocked at how common it is- more so than I ever would have imagined. Zhao et al. Ive done 4 transfers now with PGS tested embryos - the first failed and the last 3 resulted in chemical pregnancies. TTC 3 years My RE had said shes usually very cautious when it comes to sending embryos out for PGS testing only because the process can sometimes compromise the embryo itself. Obviously this is not an ideal situation but sometimes this happens. Thanks! If you feel a message or content violates these standards and would like to request its removal please submit the following information and our moderating team will respond shortly. RPL and endomitritis biopsy isnt a new thing, and its the same procedure as an ERA (which I also highly recommend). In a small study,Bradley et al. Check out mycomplete guide to embryo grading and success ratesto learn more about embryo development, grading and success rates. Hi, sorry about your 1st FET chemical. Your clinic may have a better idea! They havent discontinued my medication they want me to continue until further instructions. Congratulations on your pregnancy xxx A Group Leader is a What to Expect community member who has been selected by our staff to help maintain a positive, supportive tone within a group. We got to see and hear the heartbeat yesterday. Their fees are so high, and that only piles on top of all the money we have spent already on IVFs. My AMH was low, around 1.5, FSH was slightly high, and follicle count was low normal. A doctor can confirm it by testing blood for human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG . Have you ever had an endometrial biopsy to look for infection? First, PGS improves pregnancy rates. Im so sorry youre going through that. thats a great suggestion! I'm in a similar situation so will ask my RE about all of this! The chances of having a positive outcome with PGS testing and IVF depend on the number of the produced embryos that have a positive result in the test. My doctor told me you can have an infection in the uterus and have no symptoms. (2018)looked ateuploidembryos (aCGH/SNP) in women <35: Irani et al. Im currently 17 weeks from another FET. Tiegs (2020) in their multicenter prospective study transferred 414 blastocysts that were only tested using PGT-A after the pregnancy outcome. While I know my struggles are not unique I still feel so alone in this journey. Once they see it on an U/S, I think it becomes a clinical pregnancy. My questions is only 28% of our blastocysts passed pgs testing which is quite low from what is predicted for those under 35. I just found out today that I've only got 2 larger follicles and 3 smaller ones that are growing but are quite behind the 2 larger ones. We are absolutely crushed. Im trying not to fixate on my last embryo being a day 7. Low hCG levels. Good luck! Thought just because your embryo iseuploidthat grades dont matter anymore? I feel like your doctor should have mentioned the ERA and biopsy by now. Please specify a reason for deleting this reply from the community. I just received news today that out of our 14 blastocysts only 4 passed pgs and 1 with no result that we are retesting. The majority of these studies used double embryo transfers, either when transferring euploid embryos, in the control untested groups, or both. I have a similar story. If youre confused about the terminology youll see coming up, check my post on understanding PGS testing results. Tiegs (2020) in their multicenter prospective study transferred 414 blastocysts that were only tested using PGT-A after the pregnancy outcome.So no one knew what was being transferred. The Munne et al. I was put on the Schoyer protocol for stimulation. For example, say a 39-year old woman has 3 embryos after her IVF cycle. Thanks for sharing! I had the biopsy done twice; one to test (which I was positive for) and one to ensure it was no longer present after a round of strong antibiotics. I took the year off to just work on myself and be in a better mental state. This was something that almost all of our embryos had problems with (a high drop off rate of embryos growing in the lab and all were always low rated if they made it to blastocyst stage). There isnt much data on it, and 2 of the 3 studies found no difference, so it isnt exactly clear. , Ive done embryo glue every transfer but no luck unfortunately :(. But if you dont like the extra meds you could talk with your current or new clinic about not doing it and get their thoughts on it. Congratulations again on your success!!! Miscarriage is defined as a loss between clinical pregnancy (detection of a gestational sac or heartbeat) and 20 weeks of gestation. It took me 3 fresh + 3 frozen but I finally did get my baby. All genetically untested embryos. For women who have it, REs may suggest prednisone and lovenox after transfer. Every positive thing helps! I would like to use the delestrogen shots next time instead of the patches and pills which seem to do nothing for me. This may be used to avoid a gender-linked genetic disorder or (more rarely) for family balancing. For these groups, about 50% of biopsies had noeuploidembryos. We were told not to worry and try again after a month, and in March I found I was pregnant again but this turned out to be a chemical pregnancy. I did do another round of IVF and am now 17 weeks pregnant. Also - wanted to add that I think my husband and I both did antibiotics still with our new clinic. We decided to start with IUI with clomid which resulted in another chemical pregnancy. may be contradicted by other studies. Wishing you lots of luck. Another thing to consider: Has your doctor done a hysteroscopy? The views expressed in community are solely the opinions of participants, and do not reflect those of What to Expect. I had biopsies after a polyp removal which showed residual B cells (even after 3 rounds of antibiotics), my RE didn't think much of it. definitely worth asking! Capalbo et al. Multiple losses due to chromosomal abnormality, did you do ivf? I will talk to my dr about all of the above and hopefully i can finally get some answers :) My dr keeps pinning it on my lining but it doesnt make sense to me since Ive been over 8mm with a triple line pattern each chemical. We respect everyones right to express their thoughts and opinions as long as they remain respectful of other community members, and meet What to Expects Terms of Use. I actually didnt do acupuncture the second cycle, but I was in great shape. I actually didn't do acupuncture the second cycle, but I was in great shape. Note that once you confirm, this action cannot be undone. You guys have given me so much support and reassurance that I'm not alone in this ordeal. Weve spent almost 45K on this process and we are with a reputable clinic affiliated with CCRM so I am confident they know what they are doing but you cant also help but wonder is there more that can be done Im waiting to hear from the team to see if shes given some more thoughts. Are you sure you want to block this member? This ended up working for me after my biochemical pregnancy. IVF/ICSI #3 another chemical with two frozen embryos left over. If you want to read more about about success rates for untested embryos, go to my embryo grading and success rates post. Thank you Its so hard when youre paying yet your doctor doesnt think its needed. That makes me feel better about transferring to another clinic, which Im thinking might be the best bet at this point! After that we decided to just go straight to IVF given the chance of successful pregnancy with IUI was very low. Some are faster, and some are slower. Our RE recommends trying again, but it feels like insanity to try the same thing without changing/adding anything or doing some tests. Its such a good point and one that is often missed, I think. Will be put on lovenox this round as well. Mosaics are embryos that have a mix of euploid and aneuploid cells. Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) is a new technique which boasts an impressive 99.98% consistency rate for its results. And mosaics are in between, with low/moderate level mosaics (<50% aneuploid cells) performing nearly the same as euploids. They also provided information for the chance of getting no euploids per cycle: So as age increases, the chances of getting a euploid embryo drop. Both Chemical pregnancies my lining was under 7. what were the extra things you did besides Lovenox/prednisone, biopsy and ERA? (I was taking baby aspirin and Lovenox 2x/day for blood clotting disorders as well as Prednisone 30 mg /day and Intralipid transfusions weekly for elevated NK cells). 2014). Setting: University-based fertility center. My RE also encouraged us to just try another transfer rather than an ERA after our first chemical but then was on board after the second chemical happened. They biopsied those 2 embryos and send off the cells for PGS testing. 2005-2023Everyday Health, Inc., a Ziff Davis company. Single embryo transfer both times. I was completely devastated because I never thought that would happen with a PGS. Did you carry to full term? I know that every cycle + embryo is different, but it's so hard to not compare cycles. Thats what i needed to hear. So what if the embryos are euploid? Saw a heartbeat at 6 and 8 weeks then nothing at week 10. About 7 months later I transferred a day 7. These stats are based off many people, so your results may not exactly hit the average. So what gives now?? Dear T3BK, thank you so much for your reply! Sometimes something as small as a polyp that can be removed, can cause implantation to fail. If I had transferred two without PGS, there would have been a significant chance that both would have been abnormal. I felt like a number in his practice, and I think he was milking my insurance for all he could get. My first FET failed and it was devastating. I was wondering what protocol were you on for your second transfer? I did acupuncture that cycle. Kelly. thanks for sharing! After I had my 3rd, my doctor and the IVF nurses all pushed for an ERA saying that even though Ive had prior success, that may have just been luck and my optimal window might be different than what I was doing. Does PGT-A reduce the chances of miscarriage? Its basically a mock FET but instead of transferring an embryo they take a biopsy of your uterus to see if it was ready for implantation at the time or needs more/less progesterone. Well also look at the chances of getting a euploid based on age, the impact of embryo grade and the day it was frozen (Day 5, 6 or 7), and how rebiopsies or thaw and biopsies fare for success rates. We strive to provide you with a high quality community experience. Thank you TXtoCA, Im definitely planning to make changes. They found that: If you want to read my summary of this paper, check here. Hoping to hear from them soon . I've read that in a non-IVF pregnancy, the rate of miscarriage is about 21.3% between weeks 5 and 6. Thinking of you , Thank you Yes, its A LOT and its weighing heavy on me since last week (when I got the call from my RE). So maybe youve had a cycle and your embryos are frozen, and now you want them biopsied. Im hoping to do another transfer in January. think twice before sharing personal details, foster a friendly and supportive environment, remove fake accounts, spam and misinformation, delete posts that violate our community guidelines, reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts. My TSH was marginally high and I started synthroid. (2017)had similar results to above (aCGH, women <35): Capalbo et al. Please whitelist our site to get all the best deals and offers from our partners. (2021) in their multicenter prospective trial transferred 484 euploid, 282 low mosaic (where 20-30% of the cells are aneuploid) and 131 moderate mosaic (30-50%) embryos. For more background info, check out my post onPGS Testing. I did PGS testing. Thats a great suggestion, I will definitely ask my dr about doing an ERA. My doctor really only wants me to transfer one embryo, my husband and I want to do 2. Your doctor sounds JUST like mine did before I switchedpushing surrogacy and unwilling to try anything differently. So mosaics can have a varying rates of miscarriage depending on the type of abnormality present. My first fresh transfer ended in miscarriage due to low progesterone, I was on supplements but not enough. I can't tell if that is from the progesterone. Did testing and just found out it was a triploid embryo so it had 69 chromosomes. also did you have to do another stim cycle? Capalbo et al. Lack of common pregnancy symptoms like morning sickness or breast soreness after a positive pregnancy test. Preimplantation genetic testing (PGT) is the process of testing embryos created during in vitro fertilization (IVF) to determine the presence of genetic abnormalities that can lead to pregnancy complications, birth defects, congenital disease and/or miscarriage. She is pregnant right now from that cycle. You can check out my summary of the study here.. Of the 414 blastocysts transferred: 312 were euploid, 73.1% had a clinical pregnancy and 7.2% miscarried; 102 were aneuploid, 23.5% had a clinical pregnancy and . Aww happy your second round worked! We are currently looking to use a gestational surrogate in Texas. Thanks again! No additional testing has been offered after 3 chemicals and one failed implantation on PGS normal embryos - he just tries to push me onto surrogacy each time saying sometimes thats the only option. Can I ask why they didn't test them on Day 5? Thankful for these forums! Simon et al. I was doing yoga and walking everyday and meditating. Then a frozen cycle BFN. We started some workup with my OB (TSH, karyotyping and carrier testing). However, I just recently gave birth, so dont give up there are still lots of reasons to be hopeful esp if you make pgs normal blasts. For this group theyll have a better idea of what to expect. Again, Im sorry if thats not helpful especially since your RE didnt think it was necessary for you but that was just my experience. With a PGS tested embryo this time. I just officially confirmed another Chemical pregnancy for me. Thanks so much in advance for any feedback. For women 35-40 years old, there was no statistical difference (8.2% for PGT-A vs 11.0% for untested). I don't know how many more cycles I can do as my emotional reserve is running low. He suggested an endometrial biopsy instead. Learn more about, Learn About What to Expect's Pregnancy & Baby App. This November I did a frozen transfer with an untested, five day embryo and Im 9 weeks now. Liebermann et al. This can be done! What to Expect supports Group Black and its mission to increase greater diversity in media voices and media ownership. After multiple necessary hysteroscopies, multiple retrievals, multiplefailed transfers, and 2 chemical pregnancies, I finally decided to get a 2nd opinion. Sorry to hear about your recent cycle. We put both in and im currently 8weeks pregnant. Im still taking it! (I had these done at a private lab since my nurse wouldn't let me come in early) My last donor embryo cycle was also a chemical pregnancy but no PGS was done. (2017)found a reduction in embryo survival (from 98% to 93%) and a reduction inlive birth rate(50% to 27%). We PGS tested the whole batch of embryos at once at the end of all the retrievals. Question about blastocysts and PGS testing - we got 12 eggs / 7 mature / 7 fertilized with ICSI and 2 grew to 6 days. I am 42. (2021) in their retrospective multicenter study compared the transfer of 1000 mosaic embryos and over 5500 euploid embryos between 2015 and 2020. These studies were particularly small so drawing conclusions isnt really possible yet. Women who have three chromosomally-normal embryos as a result of In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) have a 94.9% chance of achieving pregnancy, research conducted by Reproductive Medicine Associates (RMA) and presented at the annual meeting of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) shows. She says that with PGS tested embryos my rate to achieve pregnancy is 70% and a twin pregnancy is at 50%. After each failed transfer, my RE did a lot of additional testing including a Yale EFT biopsy for receptivity and a clotting test to see if I needed lovenox and/or baby aspirin. 5AB euploid embryo. 2018). My RE felt that having one good embryo was not a guarantee, so 4 rounds of retrievals it took before we had a few to work with. This is important because miscarriage rates with advancing female age. Like embryo grades in the previous section, it looks like IVF with PGS success rates may vary based on how fast the embryo develops, particularly for Day 7. Genetic testing was normal. I dont know if this is helpful or not but Ive had 4 FETs. This is my second failure of a PGS tested embryo, and the first on this immune suppressing protocol. Note: I'm also doing a pregnancy loss blood panel to investigate clotting, and am looking into autoimmune causes as well.
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